Underpowering will kill a sub!

I wish kurt would hop in on that thread, but he didnt want to. so very sad.


rbrendal is so obsessed with kicker we should ask tracy (polecat) to hop in and shoot this down.

 

copy and paste this there.... I dont wanna sign up


Read these... and If you think you know more than richard clark., Dan Wiggins, Manville Smith, and David Navone .. then you are wrong.

---clipping is not the key to anything-----speakers don't know the difference between a unclipped or clipped waveform----the only thing that they respond to is power----and power is converted to either movement or heat and the spape of the waveform means nothing----it looks like you believe the same misconception as the rest of the world-----so what is the solution to keep that 600 watt sub from blowing??? i hope you don't believe that a 600 watt amp would have saved that 600 watt sub----- cause when the customer clips that 600 watt amp the sub will get 1200 watts and it will blow even faster..........RC



Richard Clark, Technical Editor Carsound Magazine


Hi all,
Power is power. The speaker doesn't know if it's clipped, clean, or what. It knows there is power. And power is what kills speakers.

One thing to correct - a clipped signal does NOT create DC; this is an oft-repeated myth that should be eliminated. When you clip a signal, you actually INCREASE the HIGH frequency content! DC would be the opposite - removal of high frequency signal content.

In fact, the ultimate clipped signal would be strikingly similar to a square wave. A square wave is nothing more than a set of harmonically related sine waves - there is no DC component present. It is all AC.

This is, in fact, why clipped amps are literally murder on tweeters. Clipped signals contain much more high frequency energy than unclipped signals. This is readily passed by the high pass filter of the tweeter, and means the tweeter can receive 2-10X as much power as anticipated, and quickly blows out.

Anyway, too much power - clipped or unclipped - is what kills speakers. You can toast an speaker with clean or clipped signals. Just give it too much power.

To answer the original question, you can push the driver to its full limits with that amp, so I'd recommend running the gains down a bit, and if you hear nasty bumps/distortion from the sub, turn it down even more.

Note that you won't get more SPL from ANY driver once you're at its limits, regardless of how much more power you pour on. The nice thing about larger boxes is that you need less power to reach the limits. Would you rather hit full output with 100W or 1000W? Personally, I'll take the 100W, since it's less thermal strain on the driver and amp, and less draw on the alternator.

Once you're at the limit, you're there. More power won't help.

Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio


Dan Wiggins, CEO Adire Audio


suggest that everyone download and read the following paper, from the excellent Rane website.... this is as close to the truth on the "power or distortion blows speakers" discussion as you will get...

http://www.rane.com/pdf/note128.pdf

Regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.


Manville Smith, JL Audio



Wow. Doesn't anyone here recall that the recommended gain structure for 99% of all car audio system calls for a 3:1 voltage overload at the amp - speaker? This means that if the amp clips at 2 volts, we recommend feeding it 6 volts at the wide open, full pop level. Not only do we recommend "clipping" the amp, we recommend that it be super clipped.
Clipping doesn't damage speakers. A speaker is just a piece of paper driven by a coil of wire suspended in a permanent magnet. How could a speaker ever know the difference between a clipped signal and an unclipped signal? It's just a speaker.


David Navone. Carsound Magazine



Clipping does not destroy speakes.... and clipping extremely underpowered speakers does abosolutely nothing.

 

I find car related web sites that have an audio related section are usually full of myths. For example on http://www.nissanforums.com people have been raving about audiobahn this and audiobahn that. The underpowering topic came up the other week along with the famous capacitor myth. It drives me nuts, I try to educate the people but it seems that they dont care to know the truth.

 

the said part is these people repersent the general thinking of most car audio consumers,

and this way of thinking is what keeps the BAD authroized shop in business because these peopel are easy to fuck over

 

I got it...

 

I PM'd Polecat and sent him a link and begged that he go make his presence known. I dunno if he will or not. But anyways, I posted the following there but doubt it will do much good.

RanDawg-
I assume that JL Audio is a large enough and credible company for you?
If so, read this excert from the page:
http://www.jlaudio.com/subwoofers/RP_Chart.html
Green (MINIMUM):
From a reliability standpoint, this zone represents a very comfortable operating power range for each driver. This level of power will not stress the woofer but will not extract all of its performance potential, either.
Use of less than the minimum power level will not damage the woofer, but may result in unsatisfactory performance.

 

this guy has the best and most comprehensive collection of audio INFO, if they think he's lying, tell em to stick it!
http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/2ltlpwr.htm

 

post that page I just posted here over there.

 

I read some of that thread over there a few days ago and laughed. Geo, as always, illustrates the holes in the argument, as well as explaining how much bullshit this guy is shoveling . I think to anyone who knows anything, Geo presented a valid enough arguement, backed by solid credentials (I mean, all he does is designs subs ) to show that this guy is a moron. If he knew so much about CA he would be on a forum like this one, but he isn't. Sometimes it is fun to get to someone displaying how little he actually knows, but after a while the BS all sounds the same. Let him know if he wants to come to a place with enthusiasts and professionals to dispute his claim, please venture over here. I would be glad to poke more holes in his argument as well as bring several respected industry leaders from Dan Wiggins, Polecat, Ben, Electrodynamic (designer of the D2) and many other knowledgeable dudes I try to keep in touch with now and again. please let him know he needs to get his act in gear and defend his claim as I will not waste my time going over there just to dispute such foolish, unbacked BS such as his. Otherwise he needs to STFU...

Feel free to paste this over there and tell him to bring it on.

 

Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee! B)
His arrogant attitude, particularly in the face of being proven wrong at every turn is both motivating and amusing...
Had he conceded gracefully, we would probably all be finished over there, wouldn't we?
With his attitude though, this could be a new hobby...

 

Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee! B)
His arrogant attitude, particularly in the face of being proven wrong at every turn is both motivating and amusing...
Had he conceded gracefully, we would probably all be finished over there, wouldn't we?
With his attitude though, this could be a new hobby... [/b][/quote]
I know, you were kinda being a dick :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Please let the record show though, that I was NOT FIRST to become cocky or to be a dick to anyone!


Do unto others....

Actually that's a bad attitude... I will stop immediately...




































...after this thread has concluded..

 

lol

 

Hey dnewman04, thx for the backup over there. Got me a new forum to read hehe, this place new?

 

About a year old. Glad you joined. I hope you take some knowledge with you, as well as leaving wisdom behind...

PS check out the picture forum