I think you guys were right....

and by that you mean? [/b][/quote]
The design is built around reducing inductance. So they use a 2" voice coil. This reduces the power handling from a smaller surface area on the voice coil, and the smaller pole vent. Second, they added those ribs along the back side of the cone. Unfortunately it doesn't work like it's supposed to. It actually reduces air flow, and therefore reduces cooling. You can actually increase the power handling of the sub by plugging those holes.

Luckily the sub is efficient. So it gets pretty loud with little power. It works great for their target customers. But I don't think it will do as well in SPL applications as a lot of other subs.

Also the high roll surround puckers and creates some unwanted noises.

I should also mention that the shop I work at is an ID dealer as well.

 

Well thanks, but I can't take credit for that information. Dan wiggins explained it to me, and it made sense. Dan's the smart one. I'm just the messanger. :bye:

 

The design is built around reducing inductance. So they use a 2" voice coil. This reduces the power handling from a smaller surface area on the voice coil, and the smaller pole vent. Second, they added those ribs along the back side of the cone. Unfortunately it doesn't work like it's supposed to. It actually reduces air flow, and therefore reduces cooling. You can actually increase the power handling of the sub by plugging those holes.

Luckily the sub is efficient. So it gets pretty loud with little power. It works great for their target customers. But I don't think it will do as well in SPL applications as a lot of other subs.

Also the high roll surround puckers and creates some unwanted noises.

I should also mention that the shop I work at is an ID dealer as well. [/b][/quote]
Interesting Steven. But,,

As far as increasing inductance and decreasing powerhandleing with the coil... I guess it is all about what you are looking to accomplish, and what drawbacks you are willing to suffer. Did they want a powerhandleing monster, or an efficient woofer, capable of reaching referance levels of transient responce? To simplify R&D and keep costs down, I'll bet they opted to suffer the Pmax of the driver .

As far as the ribs, I am not familliar with the design. I will look at their site to see that aspect of the design. Are they for cooling, or resistance on the cone? Maybe to alter the FS? I am not sure this will shift FS, but it is a theory, and again, I have not looked at it, so I may be way off base.

 

Really? I felt Chris's 10W7 got nice and low. You could never have told me it was a 10 inch woofer. I'd say it would give a Shiva a run for it's money regaurding extension. Could be install too. I know Chris says it could be more laid back in a differant box, but he has it in 1.8 feet or so, and I expect it will start getting quite dry in a bigger enclosure then that. But who knows.

As far as the Elemental, I have not heard the A, so as I said, "from what I have heard from others, I may include that in the list"...

But alas, this is getting t: , and I will not continue with it.

Let's stick to the ID discussion fellas...

 

I totally agree. And that's why I understand why they went with the smaller diameter coil. But what they could have fixed was those ribs. Dan said he tried to tell Matt Bogardt about it, but he wouldn't listen.

Here's the problem as Dan explained it. He was there in person, so it was a better demonstration. But think about having a toilet paper roll, but we will make it larger in diameter. Hold it to where you could see through it. Now put your hand on the other side, but a ways away. Now move it rapidly toward your hand (but stop before you hit your hand). Did you feel any air move? Not at all. Now lets say you cover the side closest to you with a piece of cardboard. Now do the same thing. Notice how it is able to push air toward your hand? The Max is similar to the first design. The ribs allow air to flow through. But because of the pole piece, it doesn't help any.


At least that's how Dan described it to me.

 

I totally agree. And that's why I understand why they went with the smaller diameter coil. But what they could have fixed was those ribs. Dan said he tried to tell Matt Bogardt about it, but he wouldn't listen.

Here's the problem as Dan explained it. He was there in person, so it was a better demonstration. But think about having a toilet paper roll, but we will make it larger in diameter. Hold it to where you could see through it. Now put your hand on the other side, but a ways away. Now move it rapidly toward your hand (but stop before you hit your hand). Did you feel any air move? Not at all. Now lets say you cover the side closest to you with a piece of cardboard. Now do the same thing. Notice how it is able to push air toward your hand? The Max is similar to the first design. The ribs allow air to flow through. But because of the pole piece, it doesn't help any.


At least that's how Dan described it to me. [/b][/quote]
I'm uniformed on the pole piece on the IDmax........what's different about it?

Why doesn't it increase airflow?


About ED's as SQ subs........I'd say they're definately a contender........

I'm in love with K's..





Jeff

 

Jeff, the differance isn't in the pole piece, I gather it is on the rear of the cone. I looked on their site and found no info on it. I assume they ribbed the cone to create turbulance. My thought is they felt the turbulance would shift air patterns and create a swirling cooling motion of the air behind the cone. I assume the pole vents are high on the frame rather than through a standard pole vent... More like a K series (12 spoke) rather than a Brahma driver. Apparently they didn't achieve the desired effect.


*edited to remain on topic by sandt38*

 

doesn't the idmax have an abnormally high bl for it's need? or am i thinking of another sub here?

 

Doanatta know... I am hoping Steven will clarify the ribs on the cone for me :angry: .

I haven't looked at the Max for a while. All I can say for sure is it is a nice sounding woofer. I am hard pressed to believe the Bl product is very high though, or we would see it in more SPL applications. Of course, one thing I have noticed is a high Bl that tends to be peaky rather than a broad dumax curve seems more punchy, like the IDMax... So, maybe you are right. Is there a DUMax anywhere of the IDMax? I haven't really looked for it, and don't remember if Dan posted one up...

 

Doanatta know... I am hoping Steven will clarify the ribs on the cone for me :angry: .

I haven't looked at the Max for a while. All I can say for sure is it is a nice sounding woofer. I am hard pressed to believe the Bl product is very high though, or we would see it in more SPL applications. Of course, one thing I have noticed is a high Bl that tends to be peaky rather than a broad dumax curve seems more punchy, like the IDMax... So, maybe you are right. Is there a DUMax anywhere of the IDMax? I haven't really looked for it, and don't remember if Dan posted one up... [/b][/quote]
Sorry Seth. I've been kinda busy lately.

Here's what I found that ME said in their review of the MAX sub:

"The coil former and cone are both glued to a dished metal disc with dimples running from the edge to the center that become air-flow ports to assist circulation through the pole piece. The device looks like one of those little ashtrays they used to have at Mickey D’s. A good deal of heat gets generated in converting electrical and mechanical energy into SPL. Innovative cooling to rid the structure of heat is quite important for both long-term thermal health and keeping power compression (caused by voice-coil heating) in check."

To find out more info on this, you may want to bring it up the next time you talk to Dan. You could also shoot him an e-mail, and I'm sure he would answer any of your questions you may have. Maybe to help others, you could link him to this thread, and he can elaborate on my inability to describe properly the problem. That is he can elaborate on the problem, not my inability.

Seth is a lazy bum. Here's a link to the DUMAX test posted on Adire's site for the ID Max. As you can see, the BL is 14.7 TM, very close to the Brahma's BL. You can also see the parabolic BL curve. :detective: