ED Disscussion (split)

Tis absolutely true. You couldnt have looked too hard. Google came up with thousands of articles on the 2004 steel shortage that is causing havoc on the us economy with one search.

http://www.citac.info/release/2004/4_03.htm
http://www.metalcenternews.com/2003/July/mcn0307ed.htm

 

OK, so they can't ipmort Chinese steel? What about the steel made right here in America, or other parts of the world? If it were being bought by the hundreds of tons I could see it, but sorry man, they simply aren't going to use hundreds of tons of Chinese steel. The cost per unit of using American steel (which is of much higher quality anyways, but why ruin a bad thing right?) might go up by what, a dollar? This steel is going to be used for what part of the amp? The cover? Holy Cow, must be alot of steel needed . If they are using steel for heat sinks this should prove to be yet another massive failure that is so common amoung so many of their projects.

Sorry, I am not buyin' it

 

By the way, thanks for splitting this. It still wouldn't split for me Mikey.

 

start a new topic in the staff area dealing with what you tryed and errors ect so I can sort out why

 

100% disagree
i ordered from Seth's store sound foundations...I couldve easily ordered from www.speedsound.com, but Seth took the time and effort to talk to me about several things that i had questions on...for instance box sizes...Chris also helped me with a lot of stuff
do you really think speed and sound wouldve given a me a thought in the world?
no...
ive had horrible experiences with thezeb.com
this isnt exactly speaker companies...but same principle...ive ordered from both thezeb and sound-foundations, sound-foundations helped me out and everything was smooth and simple...i had a question so i emailed them and the next working day i got a response
thezeb tried to screw me over and it took 3 months to get my money back for some stuff
over $500 of my money
im a big Polk Audio fan...its what i have in my truck right now...theyre a pretty small company as well and they have great customer service...at the polk forum i routinely see guys who want to return their speakers when they lost the receipt or its a few months over warranty and the CS guy Kim tells em to send em back with attn: kim jasper on the label
one time i blew one of my polk subs that they had stopped making...but i had 2 of the old subs and they could only send me back the new ones...Kim told me to go ahead and send both back and hed give me back 2 new ones
do you really think JL or RF would do something like that?
hell no
sorry for the rant...
-Cody

 

Thanks Cody... I may have to add that to my section as a referance ...

 

go for it
-Cody

 

100% disagree
i ordered from Seth's store sound foundations...I couldve easily ordered from www.speedsound.com, but Seth took the time and effort to talk to me about several things that i had questions on...for instance box sizes...Chris also helped me with a lot of stuff
do you really think speed and sound wouldve given a me a thought in the world?
no...
ive had horrible experiences with thezeb.com
this isnt exactly speaker companies...but same principle...ive ordered from both thezeb and sound-foundations, sound-foundations helped me out and everything was smooth and simple...i had a question so i emailed them and the next working day i got a response
thezeb tried to screw me over and it took 3 months to get my money back for some stuff
over $500 of my money
im a big Polk Audio fan...its what i have in my truck right now...theyre a pretty small company as well and they have great customer service...at the polk forum i routinely see guys who want to return their speakers when they lost the receipt or its a few months over warranty and the CS guy Kim tells em to send em back with attn: kim jasper on the label
one time i blew one of my polk subs that they had stopped making...but i had 2 of the old subs and they could only send me back the new ones...Kim told me to go ahead and send both back and hed give me back 2 new ones
do you really think JL or RF would do something like that?
hell no
sorry for the rant...
-Cody

[post=20783]Quoted post[/post]​

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Once again, you are confusing good customer service with a professional organization. I don't doubt you can get great CS from small companies, but there is a much greater chance a single person's demise can cause the downfall of the company. Or some other type of problem. My company could lose any single person anytime, probably even a hundred people, and we would still march along.

Read my last post or two; professional entails more than what you are talking about. No offense to Geo, but I don't consider Better Audio professional. I don't considered eD professional. I don't consider ID professional. Adire is borderline, but the loss of Mr. Wiggins would probably be a huge blow to the company. I'm sure as hell not saying they are good companies, but they are affected more by individual events and people than a larger company. Many people will prefer the non-professional companies, myself included. I'm just saying that if you don't want hassles, and want consistency, the JL's, Kicker's, RF's of the world will provide that on a much more regular basis.

 

Actually, we're one of the "big boys" in the market, in terms of size. There's 19 people who work for me. And I'm regularly gone from the office on extended trips (in fact, I'm out of the office from August 1st through the 12th). Things run fine when I'm gone... Having a well trained, professional, and large staff does that (I think if you add the size of RE, ID, and eD together, we're still quite a bit bigger). As does having well-defined processes and policies.

As far as steel shortage, most woofers use low-grade steels - 1008, 1010, 12L14. It's readily available and hasn't affected anyone that I know of. Steel pricing in China has been steadily increasing, but supply has always been there. Many large US companies (those that do 10-15 thousand drivers a day) that we work with haven't had a problem getting steel at all. Likewise a lot of the smaller (100-500 drivers a day) companies. And I'm assuming that it's not eD that's buying the steel, but their buildhouse, who should have a LOT more pull than just eD.

If there's a delay because of steel, it's because of scheduling or cash flow, and it's most likely not with eD but with the build house. If eD is having problems getting steel for the amps (I assume just the cover plate; everything else is aluminum, or should be), they should go contact Front Panel Express and get a custom tooled and produced cover in 3 days. A bit pricier, but if that's the hold-up, FPE will eliminate it by the end of next week.

Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio

 

Once again, you are confusing good customer service with a professional organization. I don't doubt you can get great CS from small companies, but there is a much greater chance a single person's demise can cause the downfall of the company. Or some other type of problem. My company could lose any single person anytime, probably even a hundred people, and we would still march along.

Read my last post or two; professional entails more than what you are talking about. No offense to Geo, but I don't consider Better Audio professional. I don't considered eD professional. I don't consider ID professional. Adire is borderline, but the loss of Mr. Wiggins would probably be a huge blow to the company. I'm sure as hell not saying they are good companies, but they are affected more by individual events and people than a larger company. Many people will prefer the non-professional companies, myself included. I'm just saying that if you don't want hassles, and want consistency, the JL's, Kicker's, RF's of the world will provide that on a much more regular basis.

[post=20796]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

Actually Chad, if you look above I bolded your comment, you mentioned CS being better with a large company.

I wonder what your idea of professionalism is? It seems to me that you feel the only mark of a professional company is the ability to lose a hundred employees and still continue on? What is so professional about that? If all my employees left me right now, I could still continue on running my buisness without a hitch, does that mean I am the most professional buisness you have ever heard of?

Profesionalism is more that the size of the company. In fact, in my considerable time on this planet I have found that usually the bigger the company, the less professional and CS oriented they are. Your definition of professionalism seems rather skewed to me.

 

Actually Chad, if you look above I bolded your comment, you mentioned CS being better with a large company.

I wonder what your idea of professionalism is? It seems to me that you feel the only mark of a professional company is the ability to lose a hundred employees and still continue on? What is so professional about that? If all my employees left me right now, I could still continue on running my buisness without a hitch, does that mean I am the most professional buisness you have ever heard of?

Profesionalism is more that the size of the company. In fact, in my considerable time on this planet I have found that usually the bigger the company, the less professional and CS oriented they are. Your definition of professionalism seems rather skewed to me.

[post=20798]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

eD's customer service is actually damn good. The poster who complained about not getting emails could contact eD at any time and get the latest.

I am not one to apply the word professional lightly. My point was that most of the smaller car audio companies couldn't handle losing one key person without going under. They cannot be counted on to be around 10 years from now; the GM's, the Ford's will be. Of course there are the obvious Enron's, but that resulted from being misrun and using illegal tactics to hide their losses. In terms of car audio, JL and Kicker have been around for quite some time and I have no reason to suspect they won't be. eD would most likely disappear if your good friend Mr. Milne decides he doesn't like it anymore. Better Audio had products, then didn't. Onyx went under when TC Sounds didn't deliver the products on time. What would Adire do without Dan Wiggins? Could they survive? They're probably the closest to what I'd call professional of all the smaller companies.

We may not like JL's policies, but they are policies that they do live to. If a dealer screws you, you have an avenue to complain. Either way, it doesn't make the smaller companies bad by any means. You can get more hands on attention and more passion that you'll see in the larger companies.

Edit: Oops, I did say CS is best with the big companies; I'm not sure what I meant by that...I think I was thinking more in terms of the "big picture" but I sure as shit did say it. I can now see why y'all were jumping on me, hehe.

 

Hehe, this thread is going nowhere. A person on here brought up the term "professional." By what I consider professional (in terms of a company), very few car audio companies would fall under that term. That person expected a professional experience, and I wouldn't recommend any of the smaller companies for that. I didn't mean to reflect negatively on the CS of any of the smaller companies, as typcially you can get more one on one interaction with someone who REALLY knows what is going on.

 

Chad, your idea of professional makes no sense to me. "Professional" is customer service... it is how our customers percieve us, and how those in buisness with us percieve us. For example, blaming a buildhouse for every issue in a public forum is not professional. It displays a lack of respect for the buildhouse and the customers intelligence. That is unprofessional. Assuring customers that their pre-orders will be delivered on "X" date, and continuing to promise them said delivery on said date right up untill that date itself is unprofessional... "We will deliver "X" product on "X" date, yes it is 2 days from now, but we will deliver"... here it is a month later and said individual has run and hidden from all forums (aside from maybe his own forum).

Not professional.

There is more to professional than the number of employees one can lose... in fact, I don't see anything professional in that at all.

And to say "If Adire lost Dan" or "If eD lost Ben" or "If Better Audio lost Bart" they would likely go under... no kidding, they are the owners... if they go so does the buisness... that is just the way it is with small buisness. I don't know enough about JL, but I am sure if Manville left, well the same thing would happen... unless he sold the buisness just like Dan, Ben, and Bart. They are not publicly traded companies and they are privately owned, unlike Kicker and RF.

 

So, this is all because of a long wait?

Well, I paid for my Brahma 12 in Early April, and I just got an E-mail about it shipping yesterday.



Be patient, and you too can be this happy, the wait makes it all that better

Even better: Scheduled Aug 4th delivery, and I have this week off from work (vacation) to install. I thouht I'd get everything done except the sub.

So, there was a good 4 month wait. I have no real Idea what the hell was the hold-up. I know right before I bought mine, the Euro dealers bought everyone in sight. Then I think it was voicecoils....but I don't know.

Waiting seems to be the thing in Car audio Especially in summer, that's when everyone is trying to get their Schieße.



Anytime I had a question, ED answered.ANT answered any questions I sent him. And Seth always gave me any information he had if I asked for an update. So, maybe I'm just lucky.

 

The problem I see is the lack of communication.

If there was a weekly newsletter with up to date information on whats going on I think the people waiting wouldnt feel quite so left out. And as Seth said, it would have been good to have started this BEFORE the due date. Say, an announcement shortly after ED was aware that there would be a delay? Keeping your customers in the dark and saying well you can contact us any time is NOT good customer service.

 

It's a lot more than just that. There are companies that are well known for their CS that I wouldn't dream of calling "professional." Maybe the poster meant better CS, but that doesn't always mean professional. The oil change place I go to is a hole in the wall and has great CS, but it's nowhere near professional.

 

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1421

May not be safe to assume everyone reads that forum, but the info was there.

Notice the "as it sits now" part of it.

 

Professionalism is a term referring to how you behave, your interactions with customers and coworkers... your attitude.
Professionalism is a lack of "attitude" if you will.
It has nothing to do with how large the company is... professionalism is a personal trait. You can hope that a corporation has policies in place to encourage professionalism in it's employees and their behavior, but don't be optimistic with these big-boys and their hundreds of employees.

If you contacted Better Audio, and didn't get me - you are saying that you would think you wouldn't be treated as professionally?
I disagree, because Bart values professionalism as much as I do.

Further, it's on our shoulders to ensure that any employees that are speaking on our behalf are instilled with the same sense of professionalism, are aware of the value that we place on it, and are going to behave professionally at all times.
Ultimately - that's our responsibility, as it is for any company's executive team, large or small... but inherently it's more difficult to manage more employees, than fewer, with respect to this.

I'd argue that it's easier for the small company to be selective of their employees, to ensure that those that they hire are professional, to instill and emphasize those professional values.

Conversely, when a company grows to a size where it employes hundreds of employees, many layers of management exist, many more issues are being fielded, many non-personalized generalized responses may have been provided for minimum-wage telephone receptionists to handle calls with... the personalized service has been lost, unless absolutely prioritized by that company during it's growth.

I would further argue that the larger company may fundamentally be less responsive, even by policy. When you do contact someone, you reach someone of little influence in the company, of little empowerment to take actions -appropriate or not.

 

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1421

May not be safe to assume everyone reads that forum, but the info was there.

Notice the "as it sits now" part of it.

[post=20807]Quoted post[/post]​

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Posting a single message on your own public forum is not communicating with your customers.