Subwoofer Polls At Caf

If i'm not mistaken that same guy started up those polls......

This is why i don't visit CAF very often .

 

SQ??? SQ??? what is that

you can not scare small childern with SQ ROFL

 

Steven,

It seems like you always want to make SQ = Accuracy. Where any SQ competitor is going to let you know that this isn't always the case. SQ is measured by human beings, which means there is a subjective element to it. For example usually the same system is measured differently by each judge even though the Accuracy of the system is staying the same.

If SQ comps were a matter of Accuracy we would have all types of test equipment as judges instead of inaccurate humans with inaccurate ears who have preconceived notions.

What makes sound quality quality to you (which seems to be accuracy) does not mean it is quality to someone else. In otherwords they have other qualities in the speaker that make the speaker have good SQ.

You need to remember that people have been listening to very distorted speakers for years and some have grown in a physcoacoustical manner to like the distorted sound. When you have that type of SQ judge a Brahma is going to have poor SQ even though it may be accurate.

The best SQ drive is not always the one with the least amout of distortion or most linear spider because it is not about accuracy in terms of measurment, but opinion. Opinions in the judges mind.

You can dogmatically argue about accuracy, but forget about SQ it is way to subjective.

 

I only have a few issues with these types of polls (Heh, when I joined CAF, it was always "What's better, the W7, Brahma, or IDMAX?" Now there are a few more thrown in the mix...). The biggest problem I have is it always causes pissing matches among the "clans" at CAF and any other forum for that matter. Second, most people that have to ask these types of questions don't have the install skills to make one sound any better than the other Also, what's to stop some zealot, say a DD zealot, from taking the poll 1000000 times?

Finally, and I know I might get slammed for this, but...If you take damn near any of the top tier subs, use them for their intended application, within their intended frequency response "range", with appropriate power, and properly set xovers and gains, in the proper enclosure, the sound between one over the other isn't going to be as great as some of the zealots would have you believe.

*Runs for cover*
:boxing:

 

i have a problem with them too...there's no way in hell all of those people have heard all of those subs

 

Ok im not going to start this again
lets drop the SQ debate right now......
Remember the hundreds of post threads on termpro about the brahma vs the 9515


My opinion short and sweet
Specs make a subwoofer, this is objective data, it is impossible for a 9515 to physically reproduce inputed signal as accuratly as a brahma at a given level of output(lets throw SPL comps out the window here, thats not what im talking about)IMPOSSIBLE.

Now here comes the people running about how they love their DD so much, sounds great to them, and the brahma sounds like crap.
well ok.. they like distortion in their music... ok good for them
Go ahead, get yourself enough power, a decent processor, and booya, the Brahma will sound like the DD.
There is no way the DD will sound like the brahma, its not going to happen

My point. Specs make a subwoofer, This is objective data, and to ignore it is not only ignorant, its stupid. Its how you manipulate these specs to your own end that makes the user happy.

objective data yields subjective opinions

The end

 

If it sounds great to them with distortion in it then it has great SQ to them, just like if a judge likes distorted music the car has good SQ and will get good scores. It's all subjective. It is taking place within the mind and modified by individual bias.

:ss:

Look at what subjective means and then see if your points make any sense.

Subjective -
Proceeding from or taking place in a person's mind rather than the external world: a subjective decision.
Particular to a given person; personal: subjective experience.

A subjective evaluation of a woofer will throw all the data out the window and figure out whether it sounds 'good' (whatever that means) or 'bad' (whatever that means). Objective data has nothing to do with it. Opinions can be informed by objective data, but it in no way yields the opinion.

:ss:

Doesn't matter how nice the paints or canvas someone uses or how skilled the artist is to make a painting. Liking the painting is a matter of opinion and subjective. It happens in the mind apart from objective reality.

Doesn't matter how many facts you give teenagers that smoking is bad and will kill them if they like smoking.

The objective is thrown out the window if the subjective disagrees. Objectivity yields nada once subjectivity appears.

Subjectivity is derived from, one's own consciousness, in distinction from external observation. Like SQ judges don't care about the numbers.

Subjectivity exists only in the mind. In otherwords it doesn't conform to the facts it is illusory. It is perceptive.

Some SQ judge thinks the Brahma sounds distorted subjectively then that is how it is going to get marked regardless of the objective reality.

SQ just isn't worth arguing on objective tenents.

Now SPL that is another story. It either did get loud or it didn't the mic decides. Can you imagine having SPL judges who give a vehicle their score based on what they thought was louder or softer. Completely inaccurate results. Subjective ones and not objective ones.

:boxing: :gunsmilie: :boxing:

 

for a little while the polls on W7, XXX, Brahma, IDMAX, etc
stopped

then the little Terd showed up :angry:
with all his posts

 

The numbers can tell me more about a driver that an uneducated set of ears can .

SQ is subjective, blah, blah, blah. SQ is quite simply accurate reproduction. period, end of story.

Subjective SQ is a listeners perspective. If the question is "what is the best SQ" there is no subjective about it. Now, if you ask, "which do you like best", it becomes subjective .

Those polls are a joke. 95% of the people on CAF are totally ignorant in their responces.

First, most have heard none of the drivers they speak of (they are followers of the flavor of the month).

Second, most cannot even begin to suggest any understanding of what the drivers are capable of by looking at the numbers and DUMax reports.

Third, the differance between objective and subjective are totally lost in their responces.

Finally, most of them are looking for loud, not sounding good. Therefore, responces in an SQ poll for most is simply a study of what sounds loud and doesn't totally fall muddy with a drumbeat.

But that is simply my opinion, and alas it is subjective :lol:

 

How can SQ not be subjective?

I think that the SI Magnum D2 and the eD e12A modeled up the same in winISD...meaning they have the same numbers correct? Does this also mean they sound the same? In the reviews i've read, no one seems to think so.

When you say SQ is subjective, are you only referring to subs or any type of speaker setup?

 

Hmm... an error in the program maybe?
how similar?

or psychological effects happening here?
(i guess not only with amps anymore... teeheehee)

all of the above?

 

Sound Quality is both objective and subjective....

 

You really are amazing......

 

How come y'all haven't called me an f'in idiot? I'm going back to...any other forum


There's sound quality, which is subjective. Then there is sound accuracy, which is objective. Quality is judged by YOU or ME, accuracy isn't judged at all, it's measured.

$.02
:ss:

 

Can you differentiate between sound quality and sound accuracy for me please?

 

Can you differentiate between sound quality and sound accuracy for me please? [/b][/quote]
Sound Quality is how someone perceives the sound individually, which is their definition of "quality sound".......what they think sounds "uality"....

Sound Accuracy would be the faithful reproduction of the given source.....