So How Exactly Do You Get A Perfect System?

That is a pretty hard question to field, at least for me.

I am not sure you can ever have something as subjective as sound to ever be perfect.

Sometimes people swap and change audio equipement constantly until they find what they truly love. Take Seth for example. By his account, he is 100% happy with his car audio install. I am not sure how long it took him to get there, but his situation is probably in the minority.

I am very happy with my install, but sometimes hear things I don't like. So to me my install is not perfect, but then again this is my first "true" install. I think for a first time around, I have done pretty well.

You also have to decide what sound you like - for me, I didn't want harsh/bright highs, so that ruled out certain brands off the bat. But I still would love to try a set of Koda comps in my car some day.

But I wouldn't worry too much about a comp set being able to play a wide enough range of frequencies. You have a good point, however, about the sub's frequency range and your mids' frequency range having some overlap. For instance, my mids can go down to 50 Hz according to JL and my sub's frequency range is 20-100 Hz according to Kicker. So there is some overlap, which helps eliminate any "gaps" in the frequency range.

You can go all out and get 2 sets of 2-way comps or some bad ass 3-way comps or kick pods or this or that. So perfection can be best thought of as a quest for car audio enthusiasts.

But what I learned from the get-go is that more important than the equipment is the install, the details. I took the time to prep my doors, prep my trunk, etc so I could have the best sound coming from my speakers as possible.

 

Perfection can only be achieved through the purchase of Adire speakers, Cadence amplifiers, and Pioneer source units ...

On a more serious note, music and it's presentation are totally subjective. What I have found to be perfect, others may not like. In my opinion, a perfectly flat frequency responce is one of the biggest things I look for, but it must be smooth. Subbass is meant to be felt, not heard, so that is how it should be. A solid subwoofer system does not overpower your front stage, and definately should not be easily audibly located. This is best accomlished by low passing the sub at 60Hz or less in most cases, and HPing the mids/comps appropriately so seperation is not evident and the true audible energy is in front of the listener, and subwoofer frequencies are enveloping, and transparent. Image must be deep and the soundstage broad, yet pinpointing instruments (by that I mean their location durring recording) needs to be fairly easily acomplished.

Dynamic presentation should be strong as well. This is really something new to me, as dynamics in home audio is easily percieveable. My recent stepping into home theater and home audio has taught me a thing or 3 about dynamics and how they affect image presentation of sound. My car install will be changing soon for the first time in over 2 years, for the sake of better dynamic presentation. I will be tripleing the power to my components, and doubleing my subwoofer surface area, yet maintaining the same overall power to the sub system. The amps will change (but they will still remain Cadence), but the speakers will stay the same. I have another sub just sitting around waiting for me to get it enough power.

That is my take on it. Anything more specific, feel free to ask. I will be glad to offer my opinions and suggestions, and I am sure everyone else will as well .

 

Personally I've completed my system. I will not be replacing any more speakers/amps/head unit unless they break. After the replacement of my weakest link (JBL 1200.1) with a Cadence Z1500 I feel that all I need is some tuning and some sound deadener. I like the way it sounds and I havent heard any better anywhere (that dosent mean much). So I am content.... or so I beleive. :lol:

 

Car audio and Crack have many things in common

the main one being.. Once your start, You cant stop

 

I love the MB Quart PCE series speakers. I've got a pair of the PCE's and the PSD's in my car.. and I've never heard anyone with more clarity. Then again, I haven't heard focal utopias or adire koda's either..

But I highly recommend the Premium series MB Quart component speakers.. They sound nuts!.. The high end Q-series speakers are a step up, but for an arm and a leg..

 

Yeah, the great thing about car audio or any audio for that matter is that only YOU can decide what sounds good to YOU (as lame as that sounds). That is why you have to try and listen to different systems to get a flavor of what equipment sounds like what.

This being my first true install, I had a tougher time deciding on what I wanted more than others here. There were just so many options that I had little or no experience with, so I had to pull the trigger in some cases. Overall, I think I did a pretty good job for my first install.

My HU is an Alpine 9813. I like its sound a lot - it is really not "bright" or "lifeless" as some people might claim, but that is highly subjective. I see it as "accurate". Seeing my main goal for my first install was to simply create a system capable of reproducing music as close to the original recording as possible, the Alpine deck made sense to me. Only majot drawbacks are weaker than advertised RCA voltage and a faceplate that reflects light, making it hard to read the display at times. But it has all the feautres I could possibly ask for right now.

My front stage is a set of JL XR 650 CSi's. I debated for quite sometime about what comp set to get because there were so many to choose from. What really helped was that I had a budget of $250-300. The next thing that really helped me decide on the XRs was that both Chris and Seth praised this set, esp the tweeter. I really enjoy the smoothness of this comp set and how the tweet is really not bright or soft - it's really in between. Someday I'd like to try the Koda comp set, but until then my XRs will be in my car.

Powering my XRs is a Phoenix Gold ZX400ti. I am the second owner of this amp, so it is at least 3 years old. But it has been used as s sub amp and on my front stage and never once has farted out. It really makes my XRs sound great. I recently had to run my XRs off my HU while my 1200.1 was in transit and it made me understand how good my ZX made my XRs sound. I bought this amp initially as a sub amp not knowing it was regarded as a competition-grade amp. Glad I bought it though.

My sub is a sub I have owned for a LONG time, like 7-8 years. It's a first gen Kicker Solobaric 12a. It was a revolutionary sub for its time and 7 years later it still sounds very good. I will admit that it is not a very efficient sub, but it works and pleases me with its sound, so I have no plans to get rid of it.

Powering my sub is a Phoenix Gold Ti600.2. I used to have a Tantrum 1200.1, as the whole world knows. It sounded good, but the Ti sounds much better. I have lost some thump, but not enough to make me want to lose my 600.2. If anything, my system sounds more balanced now with the 600.2 than with the 1200.1.

On my doors, floor, trunk wall/floor, wheel wells, etc is Second Skin products - mostly Damplifier and STFU 80. Without it I wouldn't have the sound I have. It's not the only sound deadening brand out there, but it works very very well.

In addition, I have done the magic 3 upgrade and spent money on things like grounding terminals and battery post terminals. This was all detail work IMO that I just wanted to do to clean up my install.

 

Adire, Cadence, and Pioneer Premier handle the delivery chores in my Grand National.

I was first introduced to Adire 4 years ago when the Shiva was the rave of the forums. I had 2 brand new Infinity Perfects at the time, with less than a week of playing time on them when the Shivas arrived at my door. I figured I would try the Shivas as a goof, but since that day I have never purchased a subwoofer that wasn't Adire. I bought one of the first Brahmas and played with it for a couple years, then I got a second gen MKII before it ever hit the public's hands. I have had the Brahma 12 in several differant install scenarios, and really never found a weakness with the unit. I compared it to several high end drivers and never heard anything that made changing the unit out seem like an upgrade. So there I stand, the Brahma 12 is my woofer of choice.

I went through several front stages before Adire released the Koda comps. I found several units I really liked, the JLXRs, Cadence US, Cadence Neos... but they all seened to lack a little bit of something. Well, along came the Koda comps, and strong midbass was their forte'. Mixed reviews of the tweets had me a bit nervous, as IMHO the tweeters are the most important aspect of any install. However, in my years on the forums I had found a few members with very similar tastes to mine (both in music and gear) and they felt the Koda was one of the better comp sets they had heard, so I bit the bullet. Again, I have never looked back. They took what I liked about all the above sets and put them all together in 1 package... and they hammered the midbass out like none of the others could.

Of note, all my Adire car audio gear was purchased before I was a dealer at full price. It was my simple awe of the Kodas that solidified my belief that Adire was THE best audio manufacturer on the planet. Soon thereafter I became an Adire dealer, and have since filled my home theater up with all Adire gear...

Amps... Long story short... I am a Cadence man. A Q3000 (2X100@4ohms) runs the front stage admirably. For the subby I have a little Z7000HC, with pure AB class power... How much AB power? 1680 at 1 ohm :blink: . It powers the Brahma amazingly. These amps are amoung the best I have ever had the pleasure of being around. They are very clean, very efficient, very nicely optioned, remain very cool, good God... I can't think of a bad thing to say about them. When I do change them out I will be using a Z8000 (2X300@4ohms) for my comps and a Z1500(2X750@1Ohm, or 1X1500@2ohms bridged)... All Cadence of course.

B quiet sound dampening (several layers all over the car, from the floor to the roof), and Dap-Tec minimal expanding foam (for the pillars and supports) keep rattles at bay... OK reduced .

Power is supplied by an AC Delco 120 amp alt, AC Delco Professional battery under the hood, a Stinger 240 amp isolator, AC Delco Professional Platinum AGM recumbant battery in the trunk, RF cables and fuses. I have upgraded the Magic 5... hey, I have 2 batteries .

 

The Magic 5! Nice!

Man, I so badly want to try to Koda comp set in my car, but I will have to wait. Everytime I hear you describe it I want to try it that much more. Maybe I should set the gains on my front stage amp at 90%

 

1) Proper install. This means the physical install of your products (proper wire size, secure wire connections, sound mounting methods on your mids and sub(s), proper tweeter aiming, proper sub enclosure firing direction/placement...) and the "electronic" install of your components (matching gains, proper xover selection, eq'ing out any obnoxious peaks/dips...). You want the physical install to be balls on before relying on any processing to fix whatever FR anamolies you may have. If you can install sound deadening and do all your wiring before you do anything else, your body and mind will thank you. What a pita it is to pull all your gear out so you can lay down the proper size wire and deadent the inside of your vehicle (...guess what I get to do this weekend )

2) Proper gear. I need a HU that I can interface with easily. Components that are smooth down to 80 hz. Overall midbass output doesn't mean anything compared to balanced midbass...imo. A clean sub (W7, XXX, Brahma, etc.) helps when trying to put together a sub bass sytstem that isn't easily localizable (along with, of course, proper level settings). Sound deadening and other efforts to minimize or eliminate rattles, buzzing, reflections and absorptions is also key. There are so many good amps at so many different price levels, you have to make a concerted effort to pick out a crappy one. My current amps (Tantrum 1200.1 for whatever sub I happen to have in my truck..and the JBL px300.4 [300x2] for the comps) have all the features and power I'll ever need...and good build quality to boot. A good set of comps (JBL Gti's being my current choice) a great sub (still using the BEA proto, but looking to go smaller), and proper deadening will allow smooth playback of music.

On a side note: Knowing how to properly set up a subwoofer, imo, is key. I've yet to hear a balanced car system. It's always bass heavy with the lower end of the vocal range muddied due to improper level matching. If people like that, it's cool. It's far from accurate (or sonically pleasing), imo.

Good gear + great install = Very good system.

I've yet to hear sonic nirvana in a car...heard it a few times with home audio, though

 

See the little animation with the blonde and her bouncing boobies in Sandt38's sig...click the lower right corner of the animation (where it says "Click me to Enter" )...and it takes you to Seth's site.

 

My 2 domains are www.s-fs.com and www.sound-foundations.us . Please use them copiously . Also, feel free to contact me personally at any time if you have any questions, or feel the urge for a hook up

Also of note, I have a support forum here on this board