/ Register

Car Alarms illegal????

Discussion in 'Car Alarm, Remote Start and other Accessories.' started by The_Ancient, Apr 24, 2003.

  1. The_Ancient

    The_Ancient Full Member

    In the Lastest Extremist Tactic of the "noise free" gestapo is trying to get NYC to BANN car alarms......





    In Related news

    Thieves around NYC have many many parties and rest up for the great theft fest that is to come :lol:
     
    The_Ancient, Apr 24, 2003
    #1
  2. BlkX

    BlkX Full Member

    LOL

    I guess that means all the factory security that comes with alot of cars nowadays will be illegal too??? I'm sure those companies will be pleased.
     
    BlkX, Apr 24, 2003
    #2
  3. flawlesskid

    flawlesskid Full Member

    wow, thats great. I think i have a new career in mind...... Let me lace up my boots and throw on my ski mask! lmao!

    :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:
     
    flawlesskid, Apr 24, 2003
    #3
  4. luvdeftonz

    luvdeftonz Full Member

    Out here in SoCal, alarms are so common that when one goes off, people just look the other way. Most the time it's triggered by a loud motorcycle, a kid bumpin' his system, and sometimes, they just...go off :blink: Alarms as a theft deterrent are of negligible benefit (a benefit I believe in, though) when everyone either minds there business, or just looks away.
     
    luvdeftonz, Apr 25, 2003
    #4
  5. The_Ancient

    The_Ancient Full Member

    yes and no


    While the Population can become desensitized to the sound of a alarm, you may be more likly to investigate,

    and I dotn think most people look away instantly, if you were to place a hidden cam near a car in a busy city and perodically "set off" the alarm, you would find (I think) most people will look in the general direction as soons as it goes off, and then look away, if the alarm continues to sound any new people entering the area will ignor that sound, as it is premade background noise

    and if they see someone with a brick or a slim jim breaking in they may call the cops, there is a better chance of them calling then if you did not have a alarm, also as soon as the alarm goes off, it sill make many "smash and grab" theives take off with out taking anything ebcasue it is drawing attentional attention

    the Point of an alarm is to draw attetion instanly to the crook trying to break in, thus why most alarms made in the mid 90's and later have the 30second sound cut off, where the alarm will only sound for 30secs unless the theart to the car is still active (ie someone pouding on it, or such)

    so while alarms are not a end all defense they are a good tool, in some area they are better than others
     
    The_Ancient, Apr 25, 2003
    #5
  6. peter_euro

    peter_euro Full Member

    yes and no


    While the Population can become desensitized to the sound of a alarm, you may be more likly to investigate,

    and I dotn think most people look away instantly, if you were to place a hidden cam near a car in a busy city and perodically "set off" the alarm, you would find (I think) most people will look in the general direction as soons as it goes off, and then look away, if the alarm continues to sound any new people entering the area will ignor that sound, as it is premade background noise

    and if they see someone with a brick or a slim jim breaking in they may call the cops, there is a better chance of them calling then if you did not have a alarm, also as soon as the alarm goes off, it sill make many "smash and grab" theives take off with out taking anything ebcasue it is drawing attentional attention

    the Point of an alarm is to draw attetion instanly to the crook trying to break in, thus why most alarms made in the mid 90's and later have the 30second sound cut off, where the alarm will only sound for 30secs unless the theart to the car is still active (ie someone pouding on it, or such)

    so while alarms are not a end all defense they are a good tool, in some area they are better than others[/b][/quote]
    a couple of points, there are many new cars that come with factory alarms... does this mean that this is the end of factory alarms? (some of them come on automatically regardless if you want it or not to be activated...)... The second point is: is it a ban on alarms or sirens? The first notion is absurd unless all cars are to be inspected, the second does not prevent anybody from installing a paging alarm and starter kill and flashing lights to still provide enough protection and without annoying anyone...
     
    peter_euro, May 9, 2003
    #6
  7. The_Ancient

    The_Ancient Full Member

    well considering it is only ONE state, right now I doubt the manufactures are looking really hard at it, if it was on a National Platform, they would be, but not for just one state, this law is ridculous and has little to no chance of passing


    As far as the "sirens" go they are a KEY element to a alarm, ask any alarm designer, a alarm with out a serin is UNEFFECTIVE,


    The reason the serins is there is to annoy people, this brings attention to your car, if no attenintion is drawn to your car a theive has unlimited time to remove or circumvent the other alarm features such as start kill,

    also how will a "starter kill" do anything for a "smash and grab" job where the people are not after the car but what is IN the car???
     
    The_Ancient, May 11, 2003
    #7
  8. Snausages01

    Snausages01 Full Member

    Haha...

    Well they will hate my new/upcomming car alarm! :)

    All I am at privlidge to divuldge is that it will concist of some 'emergency vehicle strobles' (not the lil' autozone type, but the 1,000,000 lums type :)) and some loud ass police sirens. :D If I was a thief I'd hate to break into my truck....


    Oh yea and whats this I hear about some alarm that will realse peper spray once the alarm goes off? ;)
     
    Snausages01, May 12, 2003
    #8
  9. peter_euro

    peter_euro Full Member

    well considering it is only ONE state, right now I doubt the manufactures are looking really hard at it, if it was on a National Platform, they would be, but not for just one state, this law is ridculous and has little to no chance of passing


    As far as the "sirens" go they are a KEY element to a alarm, ask any alarm designer, a alarm with out a serin is UNEFFECTIVE,


    The reason the serins is there is to annoy people, this brings attention to your car, if no attenintion is drawn to your car a theive has unlimited time to remove or circumvent the other alarm features such as start kill,

    also how will a "starter kill" do anything for a "smash and grab" job where the people are not after the car but what is IN the car???[/b][/quote]
    I would not be so sure about the law not being passed... it all depends on the political agenda of people pushing it forward and how receptive the voters would be (along the lines of cell phone usage while driving...) You do not need new laws BTW, to get a ticket now... If I remember correctly, there is already something on the books in New York to get a ticket for car alarm going off without a cause... And in other states you can get a ticket too under public nuissance laws and noise abatement...

    I guess we have different ideas about what the alarm should do... You assume that the alarm will annoy people (I think you meant the thieves but this is no big deal to disconnect the siren or the battery) and get enough interest in other people to come to investigate what is happening with your car... This is where I think you may be wrong since by now when an alarm goes off, most of the people will call you a few names and walk the other way instead of coming to your car rescue... To most of the thieves, the flashing LED is a sufficient deterrent if they car, if they do not care, it is 10 extra secs to disconnect the battery or yank out the siren altogether...

    I never said that the alarm would be as effective without the siren as with it but when you have to make do it is better than nothing and most of the time it will be sufficiently effective to prevent your car from being ripped off (but then I assume the alarm is there to alert me that some ahole is trying to break in...)

    And obviously the starter or ignition kill will not prevent a smash and grab but neither will alarm with even a loudest siren (I mean we are talking about a few seconds...) And I strongly disagree with you that a silent paging alarm and starter kill would be ineffective... They will work just fine in most of the situations (to thieves, the flashing LED is more than enough of a deterrent...)
     
    peter_euro, May 12, 2003
    #9
  10. The_Ancient

    The_Ancient Full Member

    Well Driving while operating a cell phone is DANGEROUS to other drivers (I can not count the number of time that I have almost been involved in traffic accidents because people were busy on the phone instead of driving, this is far far differant that a minor annoance of a alarm)
    Yes and No, I will explain later

    Alarms do annoy people, the seiren is attentional made to be "anooying" because this attacts attention,
    not if properally set up with redunant seriens and back up back up batterys for the seriens, a good alarm will not rely on the cars battery as a source of power....

    Ahh but you just proved my point, they CAME TO YOUR CAR to call you those names, they seen no one was smashing a window etc so they called you a name, now if they would have looked over and seen someone smashing a window or ripping out a sub they most likly would have called the cops, thus the alarm worked....

    if it only takes 10secs to disable your alarm you have a TERRIABLY installed alarm system.....

    and a Flashing LED will detter only high schools kids, most alarms have a "prealert" feature that makes the alarm "beep" at the first "shock" to the system unless the "shock" is overly sever" so a more enlighten criminal with "tap" a car with a Flashing LED to see if they really have a alarm, is no beep, no alarm in most cases,

    if they hear the beep they will probally walk away

    Now you state that in a "smash and grab" the alamr serin is ineffective because it is only a few seconds, well infact most "smash in grabs" last 2-5mins, from break in to flight, that is a LONG time for a serin to go off, and most certinally will make a theif either leave with nothing or with not as much as they could have

    Now on to the current noise laws and the annoance

    this is cuased 99% of the time by inproperly set up alarms one that ahve the shock sensors set so high that a mouse can fart and thaey go off, :rolleyes: this is what makes alarms uneffective

    subsqunitly most if not all alarms now come with a 30sec limit, meaning the alarm will go off for only 30 additonal second after the threat is gone, so say you go in to a store and someone parks next to you, and they hit your car with their door, and it sets your alarm off, the alarm will only go off for 30secs and then the serin shuts off,

    so the alarm industry is more or less polcing istself and these laws are points less, as are most laws passed in the last 20years
     
    The_Ancient, May 12, 2003
    #10
  11. peter_euro

    peter_euro Full Member

    K... couple of points again... :rolleyes:
    A smash and grab taking 2-5 mins is hardly that, it is a car break in... 99% of the alarms are of the cheap variety and installed either improperly or without thinking things through... Maybe in your area things are different but around here, there is plenty of "$99 alarm special including installation..." Do you think that average Joe will bother to spend 600 or 700 bucks to have a high quality alarm (including a back up battery) installed by a high level alarm installer? I am pretty sure you can answer this question on your own... ;)

    And I did not prove your point about people paying attention to an alarm that just went off by getting annoyed... I actually said the opposite: they will call you a few names on the way AWAY from the direction of your car... BTW, the warning chirps are just annoying as the full blasting alarm if they come on all the time (especially at the place where you live)...

    Interesting point about the 30-sec alarm duration... If you say that average break in lasts 2-5 mins, this leaves would be thieves at least 1.5 mins to clean up your car (and yes, there are thieves who will deliberately set off alarms and watch if anyone shows up...) I have been using a paging alarm with defeatable siren for quite a while and I love it... At home you just cannot beat the pager going off instead of the siren...
     
    peter_euro, May 13, 2003
    #11
  12. The_Ancient

    The_Ancient Full Member

    so sorry son, but your wrong


    First the 30sec tunr off only occurs if there is no more alarm triggering activity, meaning there is NO ONE AROUND THE CAR if there is it will not shut off, also the moment the theif(s) return the alarm with start the process all over again only in some alarm the 30sec becomes 2mins and so on,,,,,

    it is not like it sounds for 30secs and then shuts off, this shows how much you really know about alarms and how they work....



    Now if alarms with series were do ineffive why to 99% of the insuarance companies give rebates for cars equiped with them...


    Paging is great, I agree but it can not replace a serin, the paging cabablities can only go so far
     
    The_Ancient, May 13, 2003
    #12
  13. jstutman

    jstutman Full Member

    what about the car alarms in europe that have the electrical shock feature. do you think that would help prevent break ins? and yes they exsist. so do the gas release alarms where the alarm triggers a gas to go off. i have seen both in italy. im thinking there just outright illegal to have in the usa
     
    jstutman, May 25, 2003
    #13
  14. The_Ancient

    The_Ancient Full Member

    depends, I dont there there are any criminal laws here that would make them illegal, as this would fall under the self defense of yourself and your propertly, perfectly legal

    However our civil courts are soo fucked up that criminal can sue you and win large sums of money,

    Cases to read up on

    1> the Cases where a Burglar claimed on a rook of a garage fell through and the home owner had to pay his medical bills and pain and suffering judgement :rolleyes:

    2> the Case where a burglar fell through a Sun roof in a home, and cut him self on a knife that was on the counter, This homowner had to pay the robbers medical bills because the knife should have not been out rolleyes:

    then there are millions of other law suits, like where a person spill coffe on themselves and sues and wins, or when they eat too much fast food, and sue McD because the food is fattening rolleyes: it is out right ridiculous
     
    The_Ancient, May 25, 2003
    #14
  15. Regal1975

    Regal1975 Full Member

    i hear you completely Mike, My alarm is set up primarily to prevcent theft, however i wouldnt have chosen it had it not been intelligent enough to know a real theft attempt from a cat and to prevent me from being thoroughly annoyed by lack of sleep....all quality alarms provide similar features... for example.. say my alarm is set off 3 times in 30 seconds all by one single sensor being temporarily triggered enough to set it into full alarm mode (as opposed to warn away mode) .. it will disable that sensor for an hour... and only that sensor... so considering that i have 2 shock sensors, hood pins, door pins, and a motion sensor all available as well as a back up batt that will trigger the alarm if power is cut (and a few other features ive long since forgotten that i put in even) this will not breach the integrity of the alarm system, but will prevent the alarm from being too annoying in the case of accidental triggers..

    dei viper 600esp btw
     
    Regal1975, May 31, 2003
    #15
  16. disc

    disc New Member

    Well at least your insurance premium gets a break. LOL
     
    disc, Apr 24, 2006
    #16
  17. Hautewheeler

    Hautewheeler Full Member

    I gotta agree with mike, dudes.. I live in a rough neighborhood, and everyone knows my truck has a system (MY fault). I see break-ins all over my neighborhood all the time, and no one has ever hit my truck. I've got the viper 560xv and it has the battery backup, and it was installed professionally, so my only real worry is if the installer dude loses his job and needs some money^_^ ..

    But it has the nuisance protection that shuts down the errant zone after three triggers, and I've never seen it engaged. I turned down the shock sensor way low cause a lot of people bump around here. It's effective because I don't think that even the most determined theif would continue to set off an alarmed vehicle, constantly drawing attention to themselves. alarms are annoying, but they do attract attention. we are all used to the sounds, so as long as your not parked in the middle of a library, people can generally ignore the sound as long as it's not constantly going off.

    I think it's a wonderfully effective deterrent, though..
    My buddy has a jeep wrangler with the same alarm (because he was tired of getting his junk gankd), and we were leaving walmart, and couldn't get it to disengage, and couldn't find the valet switch, so we drove all the way home with the alarm blaring, and beleive me... EVERYONE LOOKED!
    It was embarassing to me and him, and it was his jeep.. I don't think that any thief would be that ballsy. Alarms are good and effective IMO...
     
    Hautewheeler, Apr 24, 2006
    #17