Brainstorm Daydream... RIP! 25Hz tapped horn for van

kryptonitewhite · Aug 17, 2011

Alright, it came crashing down. I give props to Lil'Mike and dB-Kicker, I never could have pulled this off so it would have always been a daydream and a wish. I started a thread or 2 on the car audio area a long time ago about building a wall with THTs, then recently SoloX 18 THs. Here's the inquery I made April 18th. This is my way of still being able to make a thread since there won't be a build log.

Jordan Powell

What would you do?

Hey Deon, I frequently toy with ideas of what I would do different if I had the opportunity to do another van build from scratch. The one I did was my only build of that magnatude, my 1st wall, first time running multiple subs with multiple amps, first time going active. I will most likely never get to do any of these, but what would you find to be most impressive for a good SQ good SPL vehicle though not out to take 1st place trophies in either category?

These will never happen, just an "if I hit the Lotto, what would you think would be more fun?"

6 SoloX 18's, 3 on the bottom, 3 in the middle, slot port on top, 25Hz tuning. 12 2500.1s 2 per Solo.

3 THTs wide... the big Tuba HTs with 3 Dayton 15's or similar. (How does the CompVX work out in those?) Then I'd only need one, possible 2 amps... single alt not multiple.

Or, could those house wreckers be modified to fit in the van? One or two? Same 11Hz knee! I dont care that 99.9% off music doesnt reach below 30Hz

Finally, a tapped horn designed for the CVXs, how ever many woud be most optimal, with about a 25Hz knee.

Just food for thought for my day dreams. I am happy with what i ended up with, but not blown away by it. Initially my van was to be 110 cubic feet tuned to 15Hz but it almost imploded so i had to build a rear wall, raising the tuning to 25Hz. Since I cut the airspace by more than half and went up almost 1/2 an octave in tuning the IB3s just couldnt stand up to the pressure. The subs I have now seem much better for it, but I think one of my amps was blown before I swapped subs. Being tuned to 23Hz with gobbs of power on tap, dones of displacement, and more than double the airspace most people run for similar drivers I still am not pleased with the amount of output I get from 20Hz-30Hz vs what i get above 30Hz.... though 148dB @ 25Hz isn't anything to sneeze at. I want the sub 30Hz material to be louder than above, but I am guessing I do mid 50's from 30Hz on up.

kryptonitewhite · Aug 17, 2011

My idea was implemented to this 9-11 tribute

the HouseWrecker. 11hz Twin CVX-15 Tapped Horn - Page 5 - AVS Forum

kryptonitewhite · Aug 18, 2011

It would have been nice to have my posts acknowledged. It would be nice to get an answer that either yes, it was my idea and thank you...we will make great use of it for an even better cause, or nope, it is just coincidence that when I asked for your opinion on the exact thing you just built that you made no mention that you alread just happened to have the exact same plans, or that you didnt pay any attention to my idea at all back then and then you got approached to do a huge project and suddenly you happened to have the same idea.

Not only does it suck that my posts were ignored, but to send me 3 private messages gloating about the success of my idea, giving me private Kicker corporation information and asking me not to share, and giving me secret information about my idea's performance that you haven't let out of the bag yet...asking me to sit on it when I confided in you about my idea, you brushed it off, then stole it!

KW

kryptonitewhite · Aug 18, 2011

You know youre KW when...

When Fi tries to move it's IB3's to Blue Print Audio because of you and Kicker steals your idea for the 10th Anniversary 9-11 tribute demo vehicle.

kryptonitewhite · Aug 18, 2011

lilmike said:

Enough of this. I call BS.

Show me your plans. Show me your model. You and I both know that you have none. Daydreams do not count.

So, what is your real goal here?

You had an idea. So do a lot of people. Ideas are not unique. Ideas are not intellectual property.

How does one of your random daydreams for your van relate to a completely independent and completely different design I completed for the 9-11 commorative project in response to Deon's invitation? I was not compensated in any way, I volunteered my expertise for free.

It just so happened that I made something that you think resembles your daydream. Get over yourself. Like 4 drivers in a high-performance tapped horn is something unique. I designed, built, tested, and documented my first 4-driver tapped horn back in 2009. You are aware that Danley sells one.....

CVX 15s in a tapped horn are not a new idea either. Been working with those since last July officially.

Sure, you thought it. I'll bet I did too, and I bet I did before you...

Additionally, I made it - after I thought it, planned it, modeled it, and designed it. You dreamt of something, I created something. I did it completely independently, and it took considerable effort on my part.

One is in your imagination, one is real. One took you seconds, and is only documented in a couple of forum posts and a Facebook chat that is now in a Youtube video.

One took months, and is documented in countless emails with a number of different people, as well as phone calls and texts.

Regardless of what you choose to believe - your daydream and my design are not related. My design for the 9-11 tribute truck is not tuned to 25 Hz. It is not for a van, it is not contained or ported inside the cabin of the vehicle, and it does not use Solo-Xs. It also does nothing significant below 25 Hz, which as I understand things, has been your area of interest all along.

To think - I have tried to help you. I have tried to teach you.

Thanks. Thanks a lot.

While I'd prefer you did not, I fully expect that this will be cross posted on at least 6 other forums before tomorrow morning, as well as shown on a youtube video.

I'd prefer you copy the entire message rather than cherry-pick the parts that suit you. Regardless, just don't forget to mention it was a private message from me, and one I asked you to keep private.

I have this exact text copied, the Google will find it, that way I can follow you and present the truth.

Any bridges = burnt.

Nice work superstar.
Click to expand...

First off I have never pick and chose or edited anything from anyone.

Second off, jackass... since you started it with superstar, I made his private message from facebook public because he took my private IDEA (not design as you say, you are correct) and made it very public.

Third, yes I will be glad to post this up and cross post it, since you were so nice about it.

Fourth, I might also make his private posts from here public as well if he can't simply say "Yes, I stole your IDEA, but I made actual PLANS and did all the work".

Superhero? No, I am just KW

jonnyv713 · Aug 21, 2011

^^^^^^ haha winning... that is all

kleaver641 · Aug 22, 2011

kryptonitewhite said: ↑

First off I have never pick and chose or edited anything from anyone.

Second off, jackass... since you started it with superstar, I made his private message from facebook public because he took my private IDEA (not design as you say, you are correct) and made it very public.

Third, yes I will be glad to post this up and cross post it, since you were so nice about it.

Fourth, I might also make his private posts from here public as well if he can't simply say "Yes, I stole your IDEA, but I made actual PLANS and did all the work".

Superhero? No, I am just KW
Click to expand...

definitely! agree to what just had said to other members.

kind regards,

kurt leaver, LOL!

"novelty horns!"

TheViking · Aug 23, 2011

Ultimate low end? Horns? vast depth and dynamic range? Klipch had it right....use the ROOM as an extension of the horn.....

Me...No replacement for discplacemnt and power....

I have ONE 12 that will do the same as 4 twelves in a sealed box. ya...really. measured it. though the low end extension is not much below 35 Hz. but a change in tuning could result in much lower bandwidth, at the expense of mechanical and thermal limited power handling... but gain could be very appreciable......depending on the driver.... Ya i played with this kind of stuff 15-20 years ago......

kryptonitewhite · Sep 27, 2011

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kryptonitewhite · Sep 29, 2011

dB-Kicker said: ↑

It looks like I need to respond to this directly.

Apologies for everyone here under this thread for having to hear someone air his personal vendetta against me on a forum dedicated to TH builds.

Jordan,

I have not responded to your accusations for several reasons, the first and by far the most important of which is:

April 22, 2011: My father was diagnosed with Stage 4 Lung cancer– he now has less than a few months left to live.. I stopped talking to almost anybody not my immediate family, or closest friends then. This would be directly in the middle of you starting with this tirade.

Second:
Your accusations and ensuing onslaught deriding me for ‘stealing your idea’ have no basis in reality. You are not the first person who ever thought of dropping a TH in a vehicle. Search the web – there are dozens of threads where people have been doing exactly that since the first time we figured out how to model TH’s.

Your questions to me relating to the usefulness of using multiple of Solo X’s loading a TH in your VAN, firing them forward at an SPL microphone from the rear of the van’s insides are in no way shape or form even relative to the project you have been up in arms about.

The TH sub in the First Responder sits in the truck bed and fires into the surrounding atmosphere. It isn’t loaded anywhere in to the vehicle. It is used as an out door sound reinforcement woofer – PA style.

Before that, and before you ever asked me about TH’s in your Van, some history, all of which is documented…

2007: My first TH discussion with the inventor of Tapped Horns (also the TH patent applicant) and my friend Thomas Danley regarding TH and TH woofer design theory dates to BEFORE HIS RELEASE OF THE DTS 10 Super Spud!

Tom approached me while I worked for TC Sounds regarding the suitability of TCS 3k woofers – or a new driver design suitable for his TH’s – while he was designing either the MatterHorn, or a TH subwoofer he was commissioned by someone in Marin county CA (I think) to build. Or maybe the Bay area... Thomas D can correct the time frame and specifics I am sure.

November 3 2008: My first e-mail discussion regarding a large outdoor truck bed 25hz Horn subwoofers began here at work, with a request from our Venezuelan distributor for a high SPL sub design for use in truck beds of their outdoor crowd competition vehicles. I committed to our trainers to design one when I had could. I was also asked to design PA subwoofers for Ted Nugent’s band – which would be the same type of 25hz sound reinforcement type sub.

2009: Mike documented his first quad-driver tapped horn over at DIYAudio.com in the "collaborative thread". The layout is inverted, but the design concept is essentially the same as what he folded up for the "First Responder" project.

Dec 6 2009: after Tom shared his DTS-10 Super Spud drawings with me –then helped me redesign the Super DTS subwoofer for my personal use to accommodate our CVX 12 drivers. I had planned to use a variation of the DTS-10 as my home ULF – we traded models, driver details, and drawings. We also discussed a Quad variant of it at that time, I have cad models traded with him then showing this.

July 07 2010: I sent an email to William Cowan requesting information on TH’s. Directly after, I decided to test the idea of TH use in vehicles with a variant of Erik Forkers (Volveter) 6.5” 30hz TB. I built this as a proof of concept TH test bed exploring TH applications in vehicles. I hadn’t heard them yet, and needed a small unit to play with.

My lab tech and I took this 6.5” 28hz TB TH and installed it in his truck, then my personal vehicle. That little 6.5” driver hit 114dB @ 22hz with no effort whatsoever in my car – moving the package shelf up and down over an inch. I call that digging deeeeeep for a 6.5. This was before I met Mike.

After experience with this little TH my desire for a TH used as ULF in my own home to replace my prior line up of theBeast-MK’s 1 through IV grew strong. For the record, the first of theBeast subs were shown at a DIY audio meet in SoCal in 1997. Enter Mike.

July 8’th 2010: My first discussion with Mike P. about TH Folding began with us working on various TH folds, including theHouseWrecker – and other higher tuned crazy subwoofer enclosure ideas. Including the possibility of doing a variant suitable to use for a truck bed for our Venezuelan customers. We also discussed the suitability of TH’s to enclosed vehicles with variations for SPL vehicle duty.

July 27, 2010: Joshua H. from NASA (yes the Aerospace corporation) e-mailed me with questions regarding using our Solo X’s in an acoustic chamber to stress test equipment that will be used on the mobile launcher at Kennedy Space Center. The chamber utilizes (4) Solo X 18” drivers in a sealed configuration being powered by (4) 14Kwatt amplifiers. After speaking with Joshua, Mike P and I discussed the suitability, or in-suitability of using a TH variation with our Solo X’s for the NASA project.

August 2 2010: directly after Joshua’s e-mail discussing NASA’s acoustic stress chamber, I was approached by one of our trainers with a side project to help with a sub that needed to work for the 9-11 tribute parade truck. He needed a subwoofer that would get DOWN and play LOUD without the benefit of CABIN GAIN, and the truck bed subwoofer was once again re-initiated, in Ernest this time.

August 12 2010: My Lab tech had his last day, he moved to a new career opportunity working in nuclear power plants.. Remember - He and I had built a variation of Volveter’s TB TH – tuned to 28hz – just to show people what you could do with a tiny driver and a TH sub in a vehicle before he ever left.

December 6 2010: I traded Mike’s and my idea’s for TH designs with Tom Danley – sending renders, models, HR txt data, and CAD files letting him know what I was naming it, getting his input, making sure he didn’t have issues with the purpose – etc..

The common thread here is a timeline of events playing with subs, horn sub idea’s, including TH’s for personal, and recreational use. This timeline involves friends building TH’s in homes and putting them in vehicles prior to your first communication with me.

If I recollect that was around the beginning of April 2011 this year. Since it wasn’t an E-mail – I can’t date it, though you ripped the whole conversation, it’s still under a YouTube video.

So let me know if I have this right.
A sound reinforcement subwoofer we started working ideas up for in 2009 which stemmed from a request to design an outdoor truck bed horn subwoofer for the Venezuelan market back in 2008, that over time evolved into a truck bed TH sub collaboration with Mike; which was a variation of a project he displayed online in 2009 and is now used for a commemorative tribute vehicle I somehow stole from you deep into 2011?!?!? This was your personal intellectual property?

My employer donated everything to that project without any form of recognition for the company, or the personnel involved. Myself, Mike, John, and Gene all donated our time and energy for free.

I dropped a TH into my own car more than a year before you asked about Solo-X’s suitability to a SPL vehicle TH in your Van. The project has NOTHING to do with SPL vehicles – it is a sound reinforcement system to broadcast sound to an external audience.

Not one single person or company or sponsor are identified on that truck anywhere an audience can see anything out of respect for the families, we were asked to help for free and we gave our help gladly! One of my own friends was in the second tower as it started coming down – he’s a New York city police officer. He barely got out alive with 3 fire fighters and 3 civilians he was escorting.

You asked me about the Solo-X’s would work for an SPL vehicle (your own VAN), Jordan. My abrupt cessation of communication with you had nothing to do with you – or even the world of subwoofers. I stopped talking to you because I was on an airplane to be beside my father some 2,000 miles away, fearful that I would never get to see him again.

For that I have the privilege of being reamed by you, having you make YouTube Video’s disclosing my PERSONAL Face Book profile and private IM’s with you, then I have the honor of having you rip me across the internet, cross posting hundreds threads, dropping links sharing private conversations, taking things I communicate with you out of context and claiming I stole your intellectual property rights for our vendetta.

Let me say this Jordan. And I fully realize you’ll more than likely rip another enormous internet armchair warrior shred thread against me, but I will say it.

You owe more than Mike an apology.
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kryptonitewhite said: ↑

Deon, I apologize to you as well. When I received 3 PMs after my first comment, I felt it was to cover up and avoid reponding directly to my implication. I was very wrong, and I am sorry. I will cross post this to the other threads to admit my wrongs everywhere else as well.

Jordan
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Jordan Powell

KW

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