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Audible Difference In Wire

Discussion in 'General Car Audio Discussions' started by Steven Kephart, Nov 10, 2003.

  1. Steven Kephart

    Steven Kephart Full Member

    Check out this conversation I'm having. In it, I claimed that I was told by Dan Wiggins that anything larger than 16 awg wire for even subs is not needed. Here was a reply to this:

    "one sales ploy I was taught at the store I used to work at (the big box) was rather simple. Take two identical home audio speakers with 8" or 10" drivers and hook them up to the speaker A and B ouputs of a good quality amp (we used Harman Kardon). One set of speakers was wired with 16 gauge and the other was wired in 12 gauge. Guess how many people bought the speaker that sounded better because it had better bass response. Imagine the customers surprise when we told them the speakers were the same model and the same price and the difference was a good speaker wire."

    Now I did the math and found out that there is .02 ohms in 5 feet of 16 awg wire. I just can't see that being an audible difference. But then he claims that his experiment is reproducable. Is it more likely that the difference is caused by something else becides the wire? My guess is that the amplifier produces a little more power to channel A than channel B.
     
    Steven Kephart, Nov 10, 2003
    #1
  2. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    ...OR this guy is just looking for a gullible audience where he can receive a few strokes... ;)
    Not that I think that there are any car audio shop saleskids out there who want to sound like they know something in front of someone, where the actual knowledge is mostly optional... :lol:

    Seriously though, usually bullshit posts are pretty easy to spot...
    Look here:
    "...the one sales ploy I was taught at the store I used to work at (the big box) was rather simple.
    ...Guess how many people bought the speaker that sounded better because it had better bass response."
    Keywords: Sales ploy

    How is this a sales ploy?
    Seriously...
    It's the same speaker in both cases. :detective:

    Hmm...
    Might make sense as more of a wire sales ploy, but that shop's a drawer with a few sharp knives missing from the set if that's their sales ploy for selling speakers, as the author claimed... :p

    And that would only be if the claims that he made had any merit, as far as actually hearing an audible difference.. much less a repeatable one. ;)
    Can you even know that this guy has the credentials (small as they may be) that he claims?

    I've said it before...
    No doubt I'll end up saying it again..
    You can't believe everything anyone says -
    Especially when you are dealing with people hiding behind the potentially Oz-like screen of cyberspace... B)

    He might be a Imposter, or maybe a Ferrous Cranious, or I suspect a Profundus Maximus.
    Hopefully he's not a Tireless Rebutter.
    :boxing:
     
    geolemon, Nov 11, 2003
    #2
  3. Steven Kephart

    Steven Kephart Full Member

    This discussion on that thread has gone much farther actually. I have read his posts in other topics, and I have pretty much agreed with him on everything else. It is just this one thing that I don't agree with. Well that and possibly his position that you should run your ground wire to the battery instead of the chassis. But that one I really haven't taken a position on. But anyway, read our discussion. I'm sure you will enjoy it.

    And thanks for the laugh. Those are great "personalities". Although I fear I may be somewhat of a "Tireless Rebutter" sometimes. :unsure:

    BTW, that site has some great tech info. This includes access to free vehicle wiring diagrams for alarms. :detective:
     
    Steven Kephart, Nov 11, 2003
    #3
  4. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    lol..

    I actually signed up, and replied to his original post, before realizing there was a 2nd page.

    I think I actually touched on some of those things you didn't mention.. ;)

    ...in my usual highly concise fashion, of course. :lol:
     
    geolemon, Nov 11, 2003
    #4
  5. hobbes26

    hobbes26 Full Member

    Don't forget
    There's a difference between AC and DC...

    power you're supplying to the amp = DC
    power you're supplying to the speakers = AC

    and to add to the counter of his claim that higher
    strand count is needed... here's an article on the
    skin effect
     
    hobbes26, Nov 11, 2003
    #5
  6. systempimp_1500

    systempimp_1500 Full Member

    ah yes, the skin effect......

    seth's mom and I witness that a lot.......

    or....ohh......that skin effect.....

    Remember, that's a product of the presence of higher power, when heat comes

    into play. The final effect is of course a slightly clipped signal. I mean, I can buy it that

    larger speaker wire can cause less distortion, because that is overall fact, but when

    we're speaking of normal listening levels, or when the wire is suffering no

    obtricities, I really dont think it's audible, unless we're speaking of the psycho-ward

    audiophiles who claim that they can tell a difference between 89% copper wire

    and 89.5% copper wire.........





    Jeff
     
    systempimp_1500, Nov 11, 2003
    #6
  7. Steven Kephart

    Steven Kephart Full Member

    Wow Chris, you are my hero. Thanks for the help.
     
    Steven Kephart, Nov 11, 2003
    #7
  8. Steven Kephart

    Steven Kephart Full Member

    You can't? :eek:
     
    Steven Kephart, Nov 11, 2003
    #8
  9. hobbes26

    hobbes26 Full Member

    bah...

    "I can hear 0.5% distortion, especially when I bridge my amp"
     
    hobbes26, Nov 11, 2003
    #9
  10. systempimp_1500

    systempimp_1500 Full Member

    You can't? :eek: [/b][/quote]
    bah

    be off with you, normie!!

    By the way, who said I wasn't a pyschoward audiophile? ;)

    I swear I piss people off all the time the way I talk about audio equipment.

    Especially girls. It like gets under their skin.





    Jeff
     
    systempimp_1500, Nov 11, 2003
    #10
  11. Steven Kephart

    Steven Kephart Full Member

    Wow, forbidden got a little pissy after reading geolemon's comments. :huh:
     
    Steven Kephart, Nov 11, 2003
    #11
  12. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    Hmm..
    I haven't been back today.

    Have to go check that out later...
     
    geolemon, Nov 11, 2003
    #12
  13. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    Alright... I replied. B)

    So what if I did more preaching than Rev. Jesse Jackson? :oops:

    Still a good post though, I think... :starwars:
    in that I can't wait to see what he comes back with... :gunsmilie:
    :boxing:
     
    geolemon, Nov 12, 2003
    #13
  14. hobbes26

    hobbes26 Full Member

    geez... how long does it take to think and write
    up such long posts?

    lol

    too much time on your hands.... get back to work
    on the speakers! :D
     
    hobbes26, Nov 12, 2003
    #14
  15. luvdeftonz

    luvdeftonz Full Member

    Holy mother of Christ, Geo!!! That was a freaking awesome, thorough, and altogether well written response/post. Man, I thought your replies on CAF were humongous and, well written, but that one takes the cake B)


    "Wire" will forever be argued in the circles of car/home audio. Wire = 95% marketing, 5% substance.

    :ss:
     
    luvdeftonz, Nov 14, 2003
    #15
  16. geolemon

    geolemon Full Member

    Yeah, pissing me off is just one way to get me motivated... :crutch:

    lol... :lol:
     
    geolemon, Nov 14, 2003
    #16