read it and weep... :lol: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- guys----i finally got in touch with Dan last night at 9:00--------i wanted to review my results and hear his comments before i posted my findings--------not that it would change anything but i always feel it is a fair thing to do rather than put someone on trial without hearing their comments---------and i realize that a test like this tends to create somewhat of a "trail" atmosphere-----i was especially concerned since it was clear to me that the conditions of the test didn't allow the Brahma to perform at its best------Dan seems to be both polite and knowledgable and i enjoyed the conversation------MY OBSERVATIONS------as i have stated already i believe that with an amp of less than about a killowatt that the brahma might output a little more sound (ie appear to be a little more efficient)-------but based on upper frequency distress tests (not affected so much by box size or car rattles)------the JL is clearly capable of more linear (read lower distortion) maximum movement------NOW before everyone jumps in and starts to spout DUMAX mumbers let me clarify a few things that i had not previously considered about DUMAX testing-------it is a remarkable machine and as a method of demonstrating MOTOR and SUSPENSION linearity it has no equal---------but the dumax measures the movement under static conditions and not when they are moving at a high rate of speed-----this means that any part of the suspension, spider, coil, or tinsel leads that causes secondary resonances, buzzing, rattles, pops or whatever you want to call them will not show up in the DUMAX linearity tests-----at least not the tests that plot displacement vs applied force-------based on the audible distortion threshold limits of the two speakers the JL exhibited inaudible distortion power handling at levels that were at or near the limits of the brahma when it was at or near its distress limits-----(i will have brain post the charts later in this thread---just remember to ignore the audible distortion curve on the brahma due to the distortions caused by the car))------it is a logical conclusion that the JL would easliy outperform the brahma at any frequency/power level that produces very high excursions-------REMEMBER that this is considering audible distortion and NOT raw SPL------the brahma is a very good speaker but the JL is simply incredible and thats all there is to it-------anyone want to come by and hear the JL being driven to ridiculous power levels and still remain free of distortion is certainly welcome--------the suspension in the 13w7 is amazing and at the present time unequalled by anything i have yet to measure or hear-------in car racing there is a saying "engines make you go fast but its tires that win races"-------i have a saying about speakers-------"magnets and voicecoils make speakers powerful but its suspensions that make them sound good".................RC -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NEVERMIND IM TOO LATE JUST FOUND THE POST ALREADY ON THIS FORUM... :angry: Last edited by MJE at Oct 23 2002, 04:46 PM
oh ya know i do.... ps..workin on the signature...how do you change where it says newbie? (it used to say senior newbie) cn it only be updated once your a senior?
basically [/b][/quote] woah... are you implying something ps..i keep gettin debug warnings poping up.....
Crap. I've heard both drivers in correct alignments, and I can say, neither distort, and the Brahma gets louder (not by much, but it is louder). I can see if he is talking about audible stresses at 20,000 watts and all, but at 1700, I hear NO issue of distortion at all. Also, I did see, he mentioned an incorrect enclosure for the Brahma being used in this little experiment. I am also interested in referance material used in this test. Were they tones, or true to life music? If you really are looking for a sub that is authoritative, a W7 is the ticket. I have said that before, and I will say it again. However, if you are looking for a true sq woofer, one that is warm and refreshing, stunningly accurate (just a hint quicker than a 13W7, but I will leave that issue as a moving mass deal, not a motor or distortion issue) that seamlessly and effortlessly blends with a sturdy front stage (not demanding of attention, like I found the 13W7s to be) you are barking up the wrong tree. Sorry, my personal experiance still leaves me more in awe of a Brahma, at sane levels than a W7 with levels just as sane. My $.02. Take it or leave it.
i think they are both great woofers...for the most part to the 'average' user they are almost equal...they each have their trade offs.... but the one thing i absolutely do not like...is the fact that the brahma has tensil slap...i think that issue seriouisly needs to be resolved..bc it is a faulty piece in that product (doesnt do what its designed to do) and for the price i would hope that something like that could be fixed... its just i would have a hard time buying something knowing that it doesnt preform how its supposed to. and yes i know other woofers arent perfect....
Moving mass means next to nothing as far as accuracy is concerned. For a long time people have misconstrued the side effects of high inductance with the effects of high moving mass. So that's definitely not what would be the reason for it being more accurate, if in fact it actually is. Even inductance isn't particularly difficult to counter using EQing or often times more easily, simply using a lower crossover point or steeper slope.
I thought about that after I wrote it, and I agree. I think more of what I am trying to get to is the fact that it moves more air, due to cone size. I would guess a strong motor might take up some for that, but I did notice the differance between the 2, however slight it may have been. The 13W7 moves what, almost 50% more surface area (this is compared to my 12 mind you, not a 15). Does that make more sense? That is what I am trying to say, essencially. I may be off in my assumption, but there again, it is just an assumption as to why I felt it seemed to lack some of the accuracy of the Brahma.
