First, this is my opinion and in now way reflects the attitude or opinion of CarAudioTalk.Com Derek Lee recently wrote an article titled "How To Find A Qualified Installer". In his article he stresses the importance of MECP certification. The owner of the shop I work at has hired two MECP certified installers in the past, I fired both of them. One lasted 2 months, the other lasted 3 weeks. Both were complete idiots. MECP in my opinion is a joke, if I went to ACU and ask to have my MECP certification (I dont have one anyway) added on as an elective to my college transcript, I would get laughed at. In fact, the only credits that transfered from my Associates in Electronics were the Academic credits. In real life its not worth anything. But my associates degree is. Now we need to see that he has a vested interest in saying that its important. After all he teaches caraudio. So can we make MECP worth something. No we cannot. These schools are all about turn around, get the kids in, get their money and get them out. From what I've seen they do not Possess the skills necessary to work on modern cars. And I wound not let anyone of them near my car or one of my customers cars. He also called MECP a real education. A real education translates to about 60 credit hours. MECP doesnt even come close. My associates degree came to a total of 66 credit hours, I currently have 137 hours toward my Bachelors in Mathematics. A real education produces a well rounded person. In his article he states "Installers are technically excellent, but often less capable in discussion skills". Maybe a course in Public Speaking should be required and/or a course in communication skills. ACU lists a few of these courses in the Course catalog. But that would prevent these schools from turning out as many "MECP Certified" installers as possible. Thes installers also lack math skills. Sure they can add and subtract, who cares so can any second grade child. But they cannot describe a simple mathmatical relationship. I was out of 8-inch PVC and one of the "idiots" suggested that I should use two 4-inch ports. Most of these idiots could not pass college algebra (but its required for every degree that I can think of). The ability to read would be nice to. But again that would require a real education. He also states that "You will run into installers who claim "I don't need a certification, I've been doing this for years". I call these "old dogs" who have likely stopped learning years ago.......". I'm still learning. I learn every day. I don't like being compared to the MCEP certified techs that I fired. They were idiots, I am not. I also dont like Derek Lee. He is an idiot. First MECP wont get me a pay raise, it wont get me more time off with pay, and it won't count as credits toward my Bachelors ( I graduate in Spring 08). Now, I am not against someone getting an MECP certification. I am just against one SOB's opinion of those who choose not to. For those of you who choose to go for it, by all means do it. But remember that a real education is much more important. If you wanna get anywhere in todays world MECP wont take you there. But it could be a start to a real education. For me, my start was my Associates Degree. I will never stop learning.
The only real advantage to an MECP certification is the fact that it does let others know that you are book smart on a level that surpasses....welll, some.....(some being the equivalant of those in the lower regions of education) (dont poke fun at my keyboard skills!!!! ) Me, Like others, being an "old dog", makes us, or at least me, feel like an ol timer that no one wants to listen too....there are core elements that are the backbone of this industry....and todays teachings, whether in the iaudio forums or the class room dont match hands on experience.... I got my "master" MECP ticket years ago....(though I found many discrepancies in the test)...and the test got me.......WOW!!!! It got me where i am today!!!! I am a Maintenance Mechanic!!!!!! Dont know this derek lee, but i would be more than happy to sit down and hand his ass too him in a conversation of words, or otherwise..... Me, being the REAL old school "installer", would have much to debate.... My advice for most of you wanna be installers is this.......... It takes a skill level that is very diverse and very complex ...from wood and fibreglasse, to electronics and sound, from math and geo,metry to knowing whare to find the right wire......it aint easy, and no freekin "test" will make you an installer..... I dont care who says it will..... Its a job you will do fro the fun of it and get to make a bit of money at, most will never make it as a career.....and wisely so, some will make it as a carreer. and those few will make it an even better industry.... I aint out to make a name for myself, nor do I care if anyone gives a rats asss about what i have to say, I just say what i personally know from experience.....and if ya wanna listen, great...if not, then I dont give a shyte either......
I really would like to meet you viking and ranger. reading all the stuff you've written and reviewed and helped people I would give you my vehicle to put my system in and not even worry about it. But I know how to put in my own system so I don't have to worry about it anyways.
I agree. Almost every mecp installer i have ever hired has been an idiot and an ass. Some shops get a rep to be proctor of the test and give out the answers. MECP use to mean you could read a book and take a test about car audio. Today it does not mean that. I am a master certified installer once. I will never take the test again. Its useless. For me it was personal thing of whether i could do the master test or not. But it a useless patch.
You all really need to read the article in last months Car Audio and Electronics. This guy may be a contributing editor but he is also a complete idiot. He also states that he would never trust an installer without a "double diploma", meaning a certificate from a mobile electronics school and an MECP certification. We need to see that he teaches car audio. He does not do car audio (he may have in the past). He has a vested interest in what he says. Does he care about the industry, only in that he makes his living from it. He is a contributing editor and he teaches. He also states that your "favorite installer" won't be around forever because they move up in the industry. Again this guy is a stupid SOB. A majority get out of the industry and do something else. I have done this for a long time and its been an interesting job, but I will get out when I graduate. The best installer I've ever met (kind of a jerk, but was the best) quit a few years ago and now manages the local Best Buy. The 12-Volt industry is a dead end job for the majority of the people in it. Luck not talent gets most people moved up. Education will get you moved up even faster.( or moved out of the industry) Again I am not against someone taking an MECP certification test. It can be part of the learning process. But if you come to my shop with one looking for a job, you probably won't get hired. I have already had 2 bad experiences with "Certified" employees. I might hire an MECP certified installer if he can convince me he can take out the trash, sweep and mop the floors, and wipe my ass.
In a perfect world, the certified wannabe and the oldsters with load of experience getting together would be a perfect meld. But patience from the experienced folks, and a willingness to learn from the newbies would be needed. I can tell you in my line, both seem to be in short supply. I used to go to another shop and go over stuff with them. Not as an instructor, but as a fellow helping with day to day challenges. One night a week, for around an hour or so. Pretty soon, there were less and less of the guys staying. Excuses, and a lack of ambition on their part killed that after a few months. Perhaps it was me, or perhaps not. I don't know. All I do know is that I was giving my time to folks that didn't give a hoot about the trade, in the long run. So, my patience is limited. On the other hand, I have pretty much given up on classes, as well. Every time I attend a class nowadays, I find it is outdated material taught by people that I don't think I would let change oil in my lawn mower. Spending 8 hours listening to someone give me info that was found wrong 3 years ago just makes me puke. And, they have the gall to charge for it! Our trades seem to be walking along hand in hand.
Interesting...There is one more thing that a test can never teach, it's the ability to see a problem and be able to figure out what the problem is by reasoning and facts and not by just being a parts changer like most garages do to figure out a problem, if they are not sure they just start ordering parts until they hit it lol. This ability takes a very patient and creative mind which most people simply don't have, that's why they can get all the certifications they want, it doesn't mean ****. Same thing applies to computer repair, only on a more complex level.
Most Installers (not all) are Egotistical jerks. You couldn't put 10 of them in the same room. So I am gonna agree They are impossible to find anywhere. Give up. Recently we Desperately needed another installer. This person (that we hired) was the only installer from another shop and we convinced him to come and work for us. You would think that because he is the only installer his level of knowledge would be quite good. He is unable to build boxes, he barely understands relays, no wonder that shop is having financial troubles. We really need one more installer especially when school starts. OK back to the idiot, Derek Lee sees the industry through blinders. He only looks at the "best installs". The ones that now one can afford. Does anyone read Car Audio and Electronics? How many of you can afford installs like whats in the magazine. Well thats all he sees. I dont think he has ever seen a real working shop. We deal with everything, our equipment, thier equipment, it doesn't matter. After reading the tech section and some of the "How To's" I use it to start the fire in my BBQ Pit. I get the mag for free, I woundn't waste money on it. And after reading that last article, I told a couple of customers (they wanted to buy a copy) It was trash, and suggested they buy Playboy. I wonder if he was born stupid or if he Inherited his stupid gene from his parents Again this is my opinion of one idiot, if you disagree please let me know.
Our industry has changed in the last 5 years . Its a how many monitors can you install in a civic and massive excursion subwoofer business now. bb d to as went out the window for harddrives abd ipod capability. Its all about flash and quanity . Not stealth and quality. I do about 4 quality installs a month now. And all of them are for customers that drive from out of state. Is it becasue I am the best installer around. No its because i pay attention to what the customer wants instead of how deep his or her pockets are. And i am extremely anal about things being done right. I spend most of my time in the woodshop these days. turning out about 15 to 20 custom sub enclosures a week. I started Tech12volts.com about a year ago now and business has been good. Its nice to know there are some people still after a quality install . The install schools are a joke. I have been an installer for 16 years now. Most of the guys i started installing with are gone for other careers . But its in my blood. And i have to stay in a shop with one of these audio school graduates i would shoot myself. What we do can be taught in 6 weeks or even 1 year in a school . Its a hands on thing. And i agree Lee is an idiot and his magazine suffers greatly from it.
15 to 20 a week, now thats a lot of boxes. I do an average of 3 a month. To bad your not in Texas, I'd give you a hand. I'm doing a budget install for some kid, I think I'm gonna photo the whole thing and post it. My goal for the rest of the year is not to sell one Car Audio and Electronics Magazine. I have already moved them all to the bathroom in the shop. I will leave a store copy on the counter for customers to look at if they want to.
i hear you. I just hired an 18 year old kid right out of high school to help me in the wood shop. Its just me and him and lots of fun. He is a very fast learner. Cut out his first box today and put it together all by hisself. Cut two pieces of wood wrong and shot about 3 staples out the side.And this was titan box . Not a square box by any means . But did not forget the glue once . All around a nice job. I was impressed. He was a godsend .Shows up to work 30 minutes early and cleans the woodshop spotless everyday.
